Good Bye ETSU Trails?

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Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:00 pm

Dr. Stanton, the president of ETSU, was featured in a Johnson City Press article yesterday stating that he would like to swap some of ETSU's land for some land at the Millenium Center across State of Franklin Rd from the campus. Just one problem, that's where our trails are at.

To clarify, its a portion of the trails, including about 40% of our singletrack as well as the downhill course.

With very short notice he is going to appear at a hastily called Public Buildings Authority meeting tomorrow to discuss his misguided plan. Why this couldn't wait untill a regularly scheduled PBA meeting is beyond me.

Here's the JCP article

While Dr. Stanton claims this is a "win-win-win" situation it is my opinion that he’s delusionally wrong. Here's why:

1. The economics don't pan out. He claims the developers could take the nice wooded property and build some condos or apartment buildings on it for students. But, the university is finishing the last phases of the Buc Ridge complex and this will bring almost 100 new units into the student housing market. On top of this the University Edge development, currently under construction a half mile off campus, will feature 624 beds on multiple buildings across the 12 acre site. How much demand will there actually be for more student housing in the next decade? Very little.
2. A failed developer is a failed developer. Why would we give an awesome piece of land, full of 200 year old trees and well used trails, to a developer with a history of failure after failure? Dr. Stanton proposes to trade our wooded green space for a flat chunk of dead grass covered property next to the Millennium Center just in case ETSU could use the land in the future. Great, now the developer has a fresh parcel to desecrate while it’s still in the hole to numerous creditors (including the city’s PBA) because it couldn’t manage to construct a building on a viable and sought after commercial property.
3. What about the rest of us?. What about the thousands of students and community members that use that land for recreation, education, or ROTC training? Obviously the students of ETSU or the citizens of Johnson City don’t matter. If it’s not made of concrete then Dr. Stanton doesn’t care about it.
4. Taxes & Trees Does it make sense to take a larger and more valuable property out of the tax base and replace it with a smaller one? Isn’t that “loose-loose” scenario for rest of us tax payers? Uh, yeah it is. And isn’t the property already a nationally certified arboretum? Yup, it is.

Maybe after reading this you’re as fired up as I am. What can you do to help? Below are a couple email addresses. Please let Dr. Stanton and Todd Smith (who heads the PBA) know what you think. I ask that you be very polite in your communications. These guys are not our enemies, they are simply considering a proposal that we disagree with. Any rudeness or cuss words will only make them gas up the bulldozer all the sooner. Seriously.
Dr. Paul Stanton stantonp @ etsu.edu (423) 439-4211
Mr. Todd Smith todd.smith @ millctr.com (423) 431-2645

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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:42 pm

done
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:18 am

Emailed.
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:22 am

Ditto.
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:51 am

Check
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:50 am

Done
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:49 pm

I just emailed them both. I think these guys should at least just hike one lap around these woods and get a good night's rest, before they sign any official paperwork.
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:30 pm

bmapple:
Dr. Stanton, the president of ETSU, was featured in a Johnson City Press article yesterday stating that he would like to swap some of ETSU's land for some land at the Millenium Center across State of Franklin Rd from the campus. Just one problem, that's where our trails are at.

To clarify, its a portion of the trails, including about 40% of our singletrack as well as the downhill course.

With very short notice he is going to appear at a hastily called Public Buildings Authority meeting tomorrow to discuss his misguided plan. Why this couldn't wait untill a regularly scheduled PBA meeting is beyond me.

Here's the JCP article

While Dr. Stanton claims this is a "win-win-win" situation it is my opinion that he’s delusionally wrong. Here's why:

1. The economics don't pan out. He claims the developers could take the nice wooded property and build some condos or apartment buildings on it for students. But, the university is finishing the last phases of the Buc Ridge complex and this will bring almost 100 new units into the student housing market. On top of this the University Edge development, currently under construction a half mile off campus, will feature 624 beds on multiple buildings across the 12 acre site. How much demand will there actually be for more student housing in the next decade? Very little.
2. A failed developer is a failed developer. Why would we give an awesome piece of land, full of 200 year old trees and well used trails, to a developer with a history of failure after failure? Dr. Stanton proposes to trade our wooded green space for a flat chunk of dead grass covered property next to the Millennium Center just in case ETSU could use the land in the future. Great, now the developer has a fresh parcel to desecrate while it’s still in the hole to numerous creditors (including the city’s PBA) because it couldn’t manage to construct a building on a viable and sought after commercial property.
3. What about the rest of us?. What about the thousands of students and community members that use that land for recreation, education, or ROTC training? Obviously the students of ETSU or the citizens of Johnson City don’t matter. If it’s not made of concrete then Dr. Stanton doesn’t care about it.
4. Taxes & Trees Does it make sense to take a larger and more valuable property out of the tax base and replace it with a smaller one? Isn’t that “loose-loose” scenario for rest of us tax payers? Uh, yeah it is. And isn’t the property already a nationally certified arboretum? Yup, it is.

Maybe after reading this you’re as fired up as I am. What can you do to help? Below are a couple email addresses. Please let Dr. Stanton and Todd Smith (who heads the PBA) know what you think. I ask that you be very polite in your communications. These guys are not our enemies, they are simply considering a proposal that we disagree with. Any rudeness or cuss words will only make them gas up the bulldozer all the sooner. Seriously.
Dr. Paul Stanton stantonp @ etsu.edu (423) 439-4211
Mr. Todd Smith todd.smith @ millctr.com (423) 431-2645
Bump
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:35 pm

brad reed:

I think these guys should at least just hike one lap around these woods and get a good night's rest, before they sign any official paperwork.

Think that might be worth a try??

Seriously.......

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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:46 pm

This excerpt is taken from the ETSU website Campus Life:

Northeast Tennessee is one of the nation's most beautiful regions. Take advantage of the mountains and streams with hiking, mountain biking, camping, kayaking, skiing, just to name a few.

Seems they need to read their own websites appeal to students
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:42 pm

olga:
This excerpt is taken from the ETSU website Campus Life:

Northeast Tennessee is one of the nation's most beautiful regions. Take advantage of the mountains and streams with hiking, mountain biking, camping, kayaking, skiing, just to name a few.

Seems they need to read their own websites appeal to students

Yeah, that was mentioned a few times in my email...
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:22 am

It looks like this proposal is on hold for now. The article's title claims the "proposal falls through", but Dr. Stanton is a keen political operative and I know he'll keep on pushing this. The fact that the economics of this don't work should be plain to see, but in many cases like this the facts are made to fit the objective, not the other way around.

JC Press Article

Thanks to everyone who wrote emails to oppose this land swap. We're lucky to have folks like you around!

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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:58 am

bmapple:
It looks like this proposal is on hold for now.

I heard that on the radio yesterday while driving to Bay's...

It sounded like the hold was prompted by the fact that the developer in the swap wanted everyone to forgive about $38,000 in debt.

If they get past that hurdle, then the outcome may not be as favorable for the trails... Like Ben said, this will probably come up again.
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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:21 am

They have a master plan that allocates that land for residential development. Maybe somebody should push them to revise their master plan for that land. If they don't have any land dedicated to outdoor recreation or research, maybe they need to do that.

As long as the plan shows that property being developed, that's what they're going to pursue. They probably envisioned dorms or something there. But if the plan was changed to show that area as a nature preserve or something like that, then the trails and other recreational uses would fit into the plan.

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Re: Good Bye ETSU Trails?

Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:18 am

We (the ETSU community) have been working on this. Getting the area included as part of the arboretum was a big step. Unfortunately, there are some upper administrators that are very pro-building (and at least one that is admittedly anti-environment). I've heard a few stories about lower administrators and staff suggesting open space preservation and either being ignored or getting told they need to keep their personal views in check if they want to keep their positions.

A problem with campus plans everywhere is consultants. They know part of the plan's goal is to leverage/drive capital investment. As a result every available space is filed with a "possible" new building or parking garage or something made of concrete. Further, public input is just about non-existent in campus planning. When it does happen its mostly done to support decisions that have already been made.

Just a couple weeks ago a certain campus administrator admitted that building dorms over there probably won't happen because of private sector growth in student housing. The mindset that open space is just a place to build stuff is shown by the recent move to transfer that area to the private sector so they can build housing there.

They'll probably bulldoze the trees, build some cheap buildings and then have the balls to name it "Campus Woods" or "The Preserve at ETSU".

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